29 | Munirah Looi | Leadership through disruption and change

Over the last 18 months Munirah Looi has lead her people though an incredible period of disruption and change. She is a living example of how staying true to yourself and leading with purpose and values is not just the right thing to do, its also great for business. 

Munirah Looi is the CEO and Founder of Brandt International, a CX and BPO consultancy based in the Philippines. 

https://brandtinternational.com

About us:

This podcast is brought to you by The Agile Contact Centre.  Stories, tips and practices that will help you deliver outstanding experiences to customers as well as your people. We do this because our  mission is to reinvent the contact centre world.

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The 3 key ingredients for a world-class customer experience

A common question customer service teams ask themselves is "how we can become for adaptable, resilient and responsive to customers?"

In our view, it's not about new tools, frameworks or rituals. Sure, they can help and are part of the mix but alone they won’t give you the operational agility you seek unless you also have these three key ingredients:

1. TRUE CUSTOMER FOCUS

Most companies and teams have this in some shape or form as one of their main values and goals. Every service organisation has some sort of customer satisfaction statement on its website, as part of their marketing campaigns, or in posters around the office. But the reality is that many organisations still fail to achieve this objective.

There are two main reasons for this. One is that organisations skew the purpose of the customer service function towards lowering costs, so what we find is managers creating a system of work that runs too lean, focused on reducing handle times, and putting pressure on people to do more with less without the right structure, implementing new technology without properly designing the service experience leading to more customer interactions when things don’t go as planned.

The second reason is the way servicing teams are traditionally structured. Teams are segregated in front and back office, in most cases, leading to different areas of the business working in isolation – functional structure causes silos. What you then start to see is teams setting their own goals, targets, and KPI’s without understanding the impact of those for the company’s customers.

For true agility, we believe that service organisations and teams need to use a Systems Thinking or a Design Thinking approach to the way they structure and organise themselves, starting with the customer first.

2. KEEP IT LEAN

By keeping it Lean, I mean build a culture in your organisation or team where the focus of everyone is on: eliminating waste, adding value for the customer, and improving the flow of work.

This culture will then flow through to the way people work, that is, an organisation where SIMPLICITY is well regarded and seen as a key competitive advantage. This involves looking at the way products or services are designed, built, and delivered to customers and also the way internal processes, meetings, and collaboration tools are designed and run.

A service organisation or a team where an iterative approach of working (plan, do, check and adapt), a continuous improvement mindset are used by all teams, and metrics and goals are set with what matters to the customer in mind will be gain the advantages of operational agility.

3. BRAVE LEADERSHIP

The third key ingredient to achieve agility is having brave leaders across all levels of the organisation.

None of the previous two points will work or even be considered by an organisation if their leaders are not willing to take some risks and do things differently. To challenge the norm in the way most teams and organisations are being managed.

So, what makes a brave leader? In our view, brave leaders are servant leaders. They relinquish power in favour of the team. They are there to remove roadblocks. They set a vision and let the smart people they hire to do their work. Only to intercede when there is a need or the vision is not being met. They feel a tremendous sense of achievement through others achieving.

Brave leaders also cultivate a culture of trust and develop other leaders; and above all, brave leaders are vulnerable. They are willing to take imperfect action and are not afraid of admitting they don’t know all the answers.

Interested in learning more? Head to our tools page to get started.

Podcast #17 | High performing cultures built on values and trust | Gregor Hartnell

Gregor Hartnell the VP of Operations at Rate My Agent shares his experiences building the leadership mindset to be able to lead in an environment of shared KPI’s, the benefits of shared accountability when people support each other to achieve a better result for the team over the individual and the million dollar question – how to manage performance of people that are not performing when there is a shared KPI.

Our exclusive Agile Leadership for Contact Centre teams : https://www.theagilecontactcentre.com.au/introduction-to-leading-agile-customer-service-teams

Rate my Agent are Australia's No. 1 real estate agent ratings and statistics website, providing recommendations, rankings & reviews for real estate agents in Australia.

Australian site:  https://www.ratemyagent.com.au

US site: https://www.ratemyagent.com

About us: This podcast is brought to you by The Agile Contact Centre.  Stories, tips and practices that will help you deliver outstanding experiences to customers as well as your people. We do this because our  mission is to reinvent the contact centre world.

Subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts: 

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Podcast #16 | Blain Slater | TSA

In this episode we chat to Blain Slater from TSA, who shines a light on managing the brand and customer experience in outsourced contact centres.

He also shares his leadership journey, from being ‘on the phones’ to the Executive team.

https://tsagroup.com.au/

Show notes

Drive - a book by Dan Pink

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6452796-drive?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=oLr2QJJbOs&rank=1

Cornerstone LMS - online learning platform

https://www.cornerstoneondemand.com.au/learning

The five dysfunctions of a team - a book by Patrick Lencioni

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21343.The_Five_Dysfunctions_of_a_Team

Fist of Five - simple way for teams to show their confidence in decisions

https://www.lucidmeetings.com/glossary/fist-five#:~:text=The%20Fist%20to%20Five%20is,wild%20enthusiasm%20(Jazz%20hands!)&text=One%20way%20to%20define%20the%20Fist%20to%20Five%20scale.

Subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts: 

Anchor: https://anchor.fm/the-agile-contact-centre 

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-agile-contact-centre-podcast/id1485239665 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/30Hsw0MpgaAnhTSiy5Fh8y 

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Podcast #15 | Dan Watts | Rapid Building Inspections

Joining us is Dan Watts, the Founder of Rapid Building Inspections and our first guest outside of the contact centre world.

We found Dan through our network of loyal subscribers and we were not disappointed with what he had to share.

https://www.rapidbuildinginspections.com.au

We think you'll find that his leadership style, principles and practices are 100% transferable to the contact centre environment.

Do you know someone you think would make a great guest - or are you our next guest? email us at info@theagilecontactcentre.com.au with the details and we'll be in touch.

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Podcast #8 | Self-organising teams | Unleash the human potential in your team to create a customer experience with no limits!

This episode explores the dark art of self-organising teams. 

We break it down into manageable chunks and show you that it really is achievable for your contact centre teams. 

We shine a light on: 

- The key attributes that define these types of teams

- Why you might want to embark on this journey

- And of course, the nitty gritty on how to do it

Enjoy!

Show notes:

Psychological safety : The five keys to a successful Google team

Discover Holacracy

Subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts: 

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Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/30Hsw0MpgaAnhTSiy5Fh8y 

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Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9mMjFkMDdjL3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz 

Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1485239665/the-agile-contact-centre-podcast 

RadioPublic: https://radiopublic.com/the-agile-contact-centre-podcast-Wx0yDO 

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Podcast #Ep 5 Deanne Martin | How to build an agile recruitment process and amplify the voice of your contact centre

"I’m proud to say we’ve brought the right people into customer service who can sit at the table and talk about how we solve a UX problem or sit with HR to create new flexible working policies. When you start thinking outside of your people being just transactional to being capable to lean in and solve problems the whole landscape of you’re talent pool changes to being broader than just customer service”

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In this episode we are joined by Deanne Martin, the Head of CX at Seek.

This is a great conversation with a truly humanistic leader who talks to us about two hot topics for any contact centre.

1. The perennial challenge that is recruitment. Deanne has embraced the key tenets of agile in her recruitment process by involving the people that do the work in the decision making.

2. How to elevate the role of the contact centre to amplify the voice of the customer. This is an inflection point for any contact centre looking to play a leading role in driving the CX strategy.

I think you’ll find that Deanne is one of those rare non-conformists who has backed herself to be different with her approach to leadership and we hope this inspires you to find the non-conformist within too.

Podcast #4 Tim Buzza | How to scale self managed rosters for 400 people using a trust based system

“I got to a point where I realised the real opportunity for me to make a difference is to actually start working on the system of work that sits behind or within the contact centre. And if I can effect a change there, even by a little a bit, it wouldn’t just impact a few hundred employees it could potentially impact thousands or a couple of hundred thousand people working in call centres in Australia”

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Tim Buzza and the team at IAG have achieved the impossible, they have created a system for people to self-manage their rosters, at scale, without any additional review or approval.

This is anything but a podcast about rostering, its a unique insights into how the human systems in your contact centre can flourish when you focus on trust, flexibility and collaboration.

Here are some of the highlights:

• How they went about creating an app for hundreds of people to self manage roster changes.

• The innovative feedback loop in place so people know if they have made a helpful change or not.

• The transformative impacts this has had on the lives of the people working there.

Donate here to help Indy get her seizure dog

https://www.mycause.com.au/page/208410/indys-therapy-dog-for-epileptic-seizure-alerts

Show notes 

-        Tim talks why the stakes are so high in self-organising rosters and schedules and the impacts on the people who interact with the system that is created to manage rostering. (1:24)

-        A quick dive into systems theory (4:34)

-        Tim talks about his background, previous jobs and career that has led him to live a life of impact (8:24)

-        Tim talks about his first roles in contact centres and the positive impact leadership can have in the lives of people in contact centres (10:47)

-        The culture that exists can be a response to the systemic forces on a contact centre and while it may look positive on the surface, it may be hiding problems (13:37)

-        We talk about ‘Switch’ as a solution to improve flexibility and control over the rostering process to people’s rosters (16:01)

-        How they iterated to create ‘Switch’ (22:51)

-        How they built a feedback loop into the system so people knew if the change they made was helpful or unhelpful (24:33)

-        How trust and reciprocity is the foundation of the solution (26:13)

-        Another quick dive into systems thinking to explain why this solution works on a large scale (29:35)

-        Tim talks about the real ways they have had a positive effect on the people that work at IAG (35:19)

-        The app’s impact on mental health and well being (40:07)

-        How leaders have benefited (43:23)

-        Tim shares a case study of a team members experience and benefits since implementing ‘Switch’ (46:17)

-        Concept of trust and reciprocity is explored and flexibility in the workplace (55:21)

-        Next steps for ‘Switch’ (57:41)

-        What to do if you wanted to create self-organising teams in your contact centre (59:30)

-        Tim talks human connection and isolation the current state of work as he sees it and what he sees as the opportunity (1:02:18)

 References

-        Cynefin framework – system thinking model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework

https://hbr.org/2007/11/a-leaders-framework-for-decision-making

-        Wizard of Oz experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_of_Oz_experiment

-        The Lean Start-up http://theleanstartup.com/

-        Human centred design https://www.wired.com/insights/2013/12/human-centered-design-matters/

-        Warwick Endinburgh mental health score https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/

-        Rachel Botsman on trust https://rachelbotsman.com 

-        Reinventing organisations – Q&Q with Author Federic Laloux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcS04BI2sbk

-        A great illustration of Lean and Agile Adoption with the Laloux Culture Model

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Jc5aAJu9g

Books

-        Spiral Dynamics: Mastering Values, Leadership and Change – Don Edward Beck

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/204687.Spiral_Dynamics?from_search=true&qid=3f1WyzNhw8&rank=4

-        Dying for a paycheck - Jeffrey Pfeffer https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35181013-dying-for-a-paycheck?from_search=true&qid=h8wOUdnrNy&rank=1

-        Drive – Dan Pink

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6452796-drive?from_search=true&qid=tYkNGd4b9Z&rank=1

 -        When – Dan Pink

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35412097-when?from_search=true&qid=TSp3eewa1H&rank=1

 Podcast

 -        Eat, sleep, work, repeat

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/eat-sleep-work-repeat/id1190000968

https://open.spotify.com/show/5KUW5Lu36O4nnfIFqIIUh4

Podcast #3 | Understanding failure demand to transform your cost centre to a value centre

“Taking this approach to serving customers, by addressing the root cause of the reason they are calling, becomes the job of the front line, its way more fulfilling than just answering calls.

And when you do this you create a culture of continuous improvement, people are more engaged, stay longer and customers get more value”

Listen on iTunes
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Show notes

What is Failure Demand and why it is important in reducing the effort it takes for customers to interact with your organisation and Arnie shares a personal example (1:00)

Discuss the difference between Value and Failure Demand (4:30)

How to start to tackling Failure demand – identifying the type of demand you are receiving and the benefit in engaging your people to drive this process from the start (6:15)

Arnie shares an example of Failure Demand, the pain for the customer and how simple it can be to find improvements quickly (9:45)

We share an example of Value Demand and why it’s good for the bottom line to focus on both Failure and Value demand and the opportunity for the contact centre to deliver more value in the form of marketing, sales and cost reduction (15:30)

Grab a pen! we to the practicalities of how to put in place a continuous improvement system to address Failure demand, identifying, prioritising, delivering and then tracking it over time (19:53)

The mindset required as a leader to make this work and the operating rhythm to support it and how to engage the rest of the business to support the improvement initiatives (24:11)

How a focus on Failure Demand will change the view the contact centre in your organisation from a cost centre to a value creation centre (26:35)

References: John Seddon and The Vanguard Method for contact centres https://vanguard-method.net

Podcast #Ep 1 - Anand Rego

This is Podcast#1 featuring special guest Anand Rego, Head of Contact Centres at Open Universities Australia.

Anand talks about how this journey has transformed his leadership style, how his teams have created an environment of continuous improvement, shared accountability and a daily focus on their Purpose.
We get into the detail around how he has practically applied agile ways of working and my highlight, how they used shared KPI's to tackle a problem in the system of work leading to poor student outcomes.

Click here to listen on iTunes
Click here to listen on Spotify

Show notes

- Setting the scene for what lead to contact centre needing to reinvent itself (1:24)
- The realisation that the way they were working wouldn't get them to were they needed to be and the first time they heard about a new way of working (6:24)
- Anand talks about the structure of the team, their contact channels and the decision to move away from individual KPI's (10:50)
- The importance of vision, purpose and values to connect people to the organisation and helping them make the right decision for the customer (16:56)
- How people can find a way to game the system if the system is not aligned to the purpose (17:52)
- How his life experience and previous roles shaped his approach to leadership and leap of faith to become a servant leader (23:25)
- What Anand has done to support and sustain his change in style. Including visualisation of the work, stand-ups, sprint planning and the power of the Retro (27:06)
- Arnie jumps in explain the Retro for this playing along at home and Anand gives an example of how Team Leaders use Retro's to get in the moment feedback from their teams (36:24)
- We get into the way to set up self-organising teams around the customer use the right metrics and visualisation (46:38)
- Using the agile principles and mindset to deliver a telephony upgrade in record time - 8 weeks from start to finish (48:22)
- The benefits the team are seeing in staff turnover and engagement and the changes they made to salaries and KPI's to create shared accountability by putting the customer outcomes before those of individuals (1:03:50)
- Anand talks about "6x multiple" to consider when setting targets for people that features in a book called Primed to Perform and the link to Cobra farms (1:06:24)
- How shared sales KPI's are getting better outcomes for students than ever before and even happier people (1:08:47)
- Anand finishes with a great example of how he has developed the agility in his leadership to seek out opportunities to have his own assumptions tested (1:15:12)

Links to books and articles from the show
Article: Why should anyone be led by you?
Book: Primed to Perform: How to Build the Highest Performing Cultures Through the Science of Total Motivation by Neel Doshi & Lindsay McGregor